et tu?

[ironymaiden]

(sparked by sirriamnis and javagoth's roundup on Roman Polanski.)

i am often confounded by how to deal with objectionable humans who make art. the work does not magically suck the second i find out something nasty about the creator. my general rule is that i don't give them money anymore, and i don't worry about money already spent (no buying new books/tickets/DVDs, but no throwing out of things i own.)

Roman Polanski really did drug and rape a 13-year old girl. and he really did flee the country to get out of going to jail. change the name, and no one would be questioning that the man should be back here doing time and it wouldn't matter how much time had passed.

i'm pained by the people and organizations who think that Chinatown or The Pianist makes him a special snowflake.

the list of protest petition signers is worst if you are a film nerd. extra-hurty for me: Fatih Akin, Pedro Almodovar, Penelope Cruz, Alfonso Cuaron, Guillermo del Toro, Terry Gilliam, John Landis, Michael Mann, Tilda Swinton, Wong Kar Waï, Wim Wenders. (others might care more than i do about Woody Allen, Martin Scorsese, and David Lynch.)

the full list is very long and dense, so it's under a cut.
Erika Abrams, Fatih Akin, Yves Alberty, Stephane Allagnon, Woody Allen, Pedro Almodovar, Gianni Amelio, Wess Anderson, Michel Andrieu, Roger Andrieux, Jean-Jacques Annaud, Frédéric Aranzueque-Arrieta, Alexandre Arcady, Fanny Ardant, Asia Argento, Marie-Hélène Arnau, Darren Aronofsky, Olivier Assayas, Alexander Astruc, Gabriel Auer, Zdzicho Augustyniak, Alexandre Babel, Fausto Nicolás Balbi, Eleonor Baldwin, Jean-François Balmer, Alberto Barbera Museo nazionale de Torino, Luc Barnier, Christophe Barratier, Carmen Bartl, Pascal Batigne, Anne Baudry, Juan Antonio Bayona, Xavier Beauvois, Liria Begeja, Gilles Behat, Jean-Jacques Beineix, Marco Bellochio, Yannick Bellon, Monica Bellucci, Véra Belmont, Jean-Marc Benguigui, Djamel Bennecib, Luc Béraud, Jacob Berger, Alain Berliner, Gael Garcia Bernal, Pascal Berney, Bernardo Bertolucci, Giuseppe Bertolucci, Marlène Bisson, Arnstein Bjørkly, Lucien Blacher, Catherine Boissière, Olivier Bonnet, Thierry Boscheron, Freddy Bossy, Patrick Bouchitey, Cédric Bouchoucha, Paul Boujenah, Frédéric Bourboulon, Katia Boutin (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Jacques Bral, Sophie Bramly, Paulo Branco, Patrick Braoudé, Guila Braoudé, Isabelle Broué, Merima Bruncevic, Anne Burki, André Buytaers, Anthony Byrne, Marco Cacioppo, Gerald Calderon, Monica Cannizzaro, Christian Carion, Henning Carlsen, Jean-Michel Carré, Lionel Cassan (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Mathieu Celary, Teco Celio, Muriel Cerf, Chagi, Daniel Champagnon, Christophe Champclaux, Fabienne Chauveau, Claire Chazal, Patrice Chéreau, Brigitte Chesneau, Mishka Cheyko, Catherine Chiono, Catherine Chouchan, Elie Chouraqui, Souleymane Cissé, Jean-Pierre Clech, Henri Codenie, Ethan Coen, Robert Cohen, Jean-Paul Commin, Anne Consigny, Alain Cophignon, Alain Corneau, Jérôme Cornuau, Guy Courtecuisse (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Miguel Courtois, Guillaume Cousin, Morgan Crestel, Dominique Crevecoeur, Penelope Cruz, Alfonso Cuaron, Estelle Cywje, Frédéric Damien, Sophie Danon, Olivier Dard, Luc et Jean-Pierre Dardenne, Hervé de Luze (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Valérie de Saint-Do, Guillermo del Toro, Benoît Delmas, Jonathan Demme, Ruud den Dryver, Dante Desarthe, Romain Desbiens, Thomas Desjonquères (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Alexandre Desplat, Chris Devi, Rosalinde et Michel Deville, Guillaume D'Ham (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Christelle Didier (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Kathrin DiPaola, Claire Dixsaut, Ariel Dorfman, Jean Douchet, Fabrice du Welz, Marina Duarte Nunes Ferreira, Georges Dybman, Daniel Edinger, Elrem, Sam Enoch, Ernest, Jacques Fansten, Joël Farges, Gianluca Farinelli (Cinémathèque de de Bologne), Etienne Faure, Michel Ferry, Jean Teddy Filippe (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Aurélie Fiorentino, Alan Fischer, Martine Fitoussi, Sebastian Fleischhacker, Joy Fleury, Scott Foundas, Werner Fraai, Stephen Frears, Thierry Frémaux, Marc Freycon, Sam Gabarski, René Gainville, Matteo Garone, Yves Gasser, Tony Gatlif, Catherine Gaudin-Montalto, Jean-Marc Gauthier, Costa Gavras, Nathalie Geiser, Lizi Gelber, Isabelle Gély, Jean-Marc Ghanassia, Alain Gil, Véronique Gillet, Terry Gilliam, Christian Gion, François Girault, Stéphane Gizard, Carlos Miguel Bernardo González, Christophe Goumand, Eric Gravereau, Philippe Gruss, Marc Guidoni, Mikael Håfström, Ronald Harwood, Dimitri Haulet, Buck Henry, David Heyman, Laurent Heynemann, Dominique Hollier, Isabelle Hontebeyrie, Frédéric Horiszny, Robert Hossein, Jean-Loup Hubert, Wendy Hudson Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu, Gilles Jacob, Eric et Veronique et Nicolas Jacquelin, Just Jaeckin, Thomas Jahn, Olivia Janik, Jean-Baptiste Jay, Anne Jeandet, Alain Jessua, Sébastien Jimenez, Arthur Joffé, Pierre Jolivet, Kent Jones (World Cinema Foundation), Alexandra Julen, Paola Jullian, Roger Kahane, Pierre Kalfon, Reena Kanji, Nelly Kaplan, Wong Kar Waï, Darius Khondji, Ladislas Kijno, Richard Klebinder, Jonathan Klein, Harmony Korinne, Jan Kounen, Sylvia Kristel, Diane Kurys, Emir Kusturica, Jean Labadie, Eliane Lacroux, Michel Laigle, Stéphane Lam, John Landis, Claude Lanzmann, David Lanzmann, André Larquié, Pauline Larrieu, Jacques et Françoise Lassalle, Carole Laure, Christine Laurent-Blixen, Emilien Lazaron (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Eric Le Roy, Fábio Leal, Vinciane Lecocq, Patrice Leconte, Linda Lefebvre, Claude Lelouch, Alain Lenglet, Gérard Lenne, Larry Levine, Lorraine Lévy, Pierre et Renée Lhomme, Marceline Loridan-Ivens, catalina Lozano, Hugo Luczyc-Wyhowski, Laurence Lustyk, David Lynch, Bania Madjbar, Laurent Malet, Tim Malieckal, Guy Malugani, Michael Mann, Yvon Marciano, François Margolin, Jean-Pierre Marois, Tonie Marshall, Alain Martin, Sandrine Martin, Didier Martiny, Mario Martone, Christine Mathis, Esmeralda Mattei, Nicolas Mauvernay, Yannick Mazet, Christopher, Spencer et Claire Mc Andrew, Guillermo Menaldi, Frédéric Mermoud, Allison Michel, Radu Mihaileanu, Jean-Louis Milesi, Claude Miller, Lionel Miniato, Nelly Moaligou, Jean-Marc Modeste, Mario Monicelli, Jeanne Moreau, Gael Morel, Omayra Muñiz Fernández, Stephanie Murat, Christian Mvogo Mbarga, Anna N.Levine, Charles Nemes, Juliette Nicolas-Donnard, Sandra Nicolier, Rachel Noël, Rui Nogueira, Olivier Nolin, Michel Ocelot, David Ogando, Mariana Oliveira Santos, Szentgyörgyi Ottó, Martine Pagès, Eric Pape, Abner Pastoll, Alexander Payne, Richard Pena (Directeur Festival de NY), Olivier Père, Suzana Peric (Membre de l'équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski "The Ghost"), Jacques Perrin, Thomas Pibarot, Arnaud Pierrichon, Stéphane Pietri, Anne Pigeon Bormans, Claude Pinoteau, Michele Placido, Sabrina Poidevin, Agnès Catherine Poirier, Stéphane Pozderec, Harry Prenger, Gilbert Primet, Marie-Hélène Raby, Philippe Radault, Tristan Rain, Jean-Paul Rappeneau, Brett Ratner, Raphael Rebibo, Jo Reymen, Laurence Reymond, Yasmina Reza, Christiane Rhein, Jacques Richard, Dominique Robert, Jean-Jacques Rochut, Yannick Rolandeau, Paul Rondags, Avital Ronell, Graciela Rosato, Kontochristopoulou Roula, Laurence Roulet, Joshua Rout, Florence Rphael, Isabelle Ruh, Martin Ruhe, Sonia Rykiel, Anita S. Chang, Esteban S. Goffin, Marc Saffar, Gabriela Salazar Scherman, Walter Salles, Jean-Paul Salomé, Jean-Frédéric Samie, Marc Sandberg, Léo Scalpel, Jerry Schatzberg, Georg Schmithüsen, Julian Schnabel, Barbet Schroeder, J. Neil Schulman, Pierre Schumacher, Ettore Scola, Luis Gustavo Sconza Zaratin Soares, Martin Scorsese, Andrea Sedlackova, Frank Segier, Guy Seligmann, Lorenzo Semple Jr, Julien Seri, Boris Shlafer, Antoine Silber, Pierre Silvant, Charlotte Silvera, Noel Simsolo, Christophe Sirodeau, Abderrahmane Sissako, Beatrice Sisul Petter Skavlan, Paolo Sorrentino, Roch Stephanik, Karen Stetler, Guillaume Stirn, Jean-Marc Surcin, Tilda Swinton, Jean-Charles Tacchella, Radovan Tadic, Danis Tanovic, Bertrand Tavernier, André Techiné, Cécile Telerman, Harold Alvarado Tenorio, Alain Terzian, Valentine Theret, Virginie Thévenet, Pascal Thomas, Jeremy Thomas, Marc Thomas Charley, Giuseppe Tornatore, Serge Toubiana, Nadine Trintignant, Julie Turcas, Mitja Tušek, Tom Tykwer, Alexandre Tylski, Stephen Ujlaki, Jaques Vallotton, Phil van der Linden, Betrand Van Effenterre, Leopold Van Genechten, Christophe van Rompaey, Dorna van Rouveroy, Vangelis, Christian Verdu, Jean-Pierre Vergne, Sarah Vermande, Marc Villemain, Jean-François Villemer, Daria Vinault, Thomas Vossart, Gilles Walusinski, Eric Watton, Wim Wenders, Anaïse Wittmann, A Wolanin, Arnaud Xainte, Serge Youbiana, Paule Zajdermann, Christian Zeender.

Et les organisations professionnelles
- l'Académie des César
- l’API (Association des producteurs Indépendants)
- l'ARP
- l’ARRF – Association des Réalisateurs et réalisatrices de Films - Belgique
- la Cinémathèque Française
- la Cinémathèque de Dijon / Cinémathèque Jean Douchet
- le Festival de Cannes
- le Festival des Rencontres internationales du cinéma de patrimoine de Vincennes
- le Fonds Culturel Franco Américain
- le Groupe 25 images
- Members of the European Producers Club
- la SACD
- Le Bureau National du SFA
- le SPI
- Le Syndicat National des Techniciens de la Production Cinématographique et de Télévision
- l'Union des producteurs de films
- L’équipe du dernier film de Roman Polanski « Ghost »
- Pathé
- Scott Foundas (LA Weekly)

is apprehending him at a film festival setting a precedent that puts dissident filmmakers in danger? um, no. and if Polanski had stayed to hear his sentence read in 1978, none of this would be happening.

i have a few months to think about how my money rule works with a SIFF pass.

Comments

[textualdeviance.livejournal.com]

Perhaps unsurprisingly, few women on this list. (Tilda, wtf?)

I also wonder how many of these people really understand what he did, and that he wasn't just having "consensual" sex with a Lolita who'd had a glass of wine.

It's rape in any case, but I wonder if they realize that she was heavily drugged and DID say no.

(Also: What the hell is with some of the people who've been saying it must've been OK since her mother approved? Do they think that raping a child is merely some sort of crime against the parents?)

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

First - and we may disagree on this - if i damned every person for every petition they ever signed that disagreed with my value system, I'd be a very lonely person. I'm unlikely to to respond that harshly for one petition (and yes, I can envision an exception, but running from an overly harsh judge doesn't make the short list).

Second - while I'm not about to support what Polanski did, I understand running when a judge *announces" that he's going to *ignore* any plea agreements and max out whatever he can. Were there better ways to deal? yes. Is the man guilty? yes. Should people be petitioning to have him not extradited? I don't know.

For me, this has nothing to do with who Polanski is - anyone who ran from a judge who was going to ignore a plea agreement has my sympathy for the running - not for the crime, mind you - but for the running.

Understanding also that in many parts of Europe, this would have been treated differently (as a morals crime? as a "doping" crime? but not likely with the outrage due to age - more due to being doped and thereby not being *able* to give consent) might give one pause as to how one responds to those signing the petition.

I do believe he should have done time - but I also believe that the system can be perverted by someone looking to make a name - and everything I know about this judge suggests he was exactly that. Running might have made sense, given the "standard" time vs. the time this judge was hinting at.

(Also: the people who seem to think it's "ok" cause "mama approved" think this was a simple case of stat rape - that is, she wasn't old enough to give consent even if she did - which is pure bullshit - but there were papers at the time who made this out to be a Lolita case - and those who are offended by the way stat rape is applied might well have misconstrued this. They're wrong - this kid was drugged and regardless of age couldn't give consent if DRUGGEd - but I think that's the basis for their confusion).

[ironymaiden]

oh, i believe that people signed the paper without understanding what it meant. the wording of the petition is full of spin. but people also lose points with me for being too careless to learn about what they're signing. as far as loneliness goes, there's a major difference between people i know and public figures - i would have a discussion about this with people i know, and knowing their reasoning would make a difference. that's how i maintain relationships with people who i disagree with. people i don't know personally, i have no compunction about writing off. FATIH AKIN, CALL ME!

i get what you're saying, but running never made sense. it would have made sense if he ran, changed his name, and got a new career. if he wanted to stay Roman Polanski and make Roman Polanski films, then he needed to attend the sentencing and mount an appeal.

he's not been a fugitive for thirty years, he's been playing the wronged genius. if he acted like a fugitive, he wouldn't be in this mess because no one would know where he is.

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

Knowing what you're signing is key - and I think you're right - being careless is a problem. (And yea, that's how I maintain friendships with folks I disagree with too - that paragraph was kind of sloppy on my part...)

Running was cowardice - attending the sentencing and mounting an appeal would have made more sense - would have been the right thing to do - but I understand feeling the need to run from a judge who has telegraphed the intent to ignore the DA's plea/recommendation. For an entirely different set of reasons, a lot of "kids" skipped the country or ran from sentencing for what a lot of folks felt were "good" reasons - dodging the draft, pot sentencing, flouting racial laws. Believe me - I get the difference - but understanding the culture in which he lived is important too.

All that said - a *fair* sentencing would be a good thing - and based on the original plea and a judge NOT looking to make a name for himself (or win an election or whatever), a real sentencing would make a lot of sense wright now.

That's he's a genius shouldn't excuse him from drugging and having non-consensual sex with *anyone* - much less someone that young.

That folks think this is some Lolita thing needs to be redressed. If after it's made clear that this isn't some "forbidden romance" but a case of NO means NO and they STILL defend him from CURRENT sentencing - then I have a problem with them.

All that said - if the victim wants to remain in obscurity, is there any way to deal with Polanski without dragging her back in? She's made it VERY clear she wants none of it today.

[ironymaiden]

at this point, i don't think there's any reason to drag her back in - some other judge needs to read the file, account for the fleeing from justice bit, and sentence him.

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

I would hope you're right - I know she seems concerned in the news bits I've seen.

[varina8.livejournal.com]

Steve Lopez' column (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lopez30-2009sep30,0,4549479.column) today quoted heavily from the girl's original testimony and the charging papers.

Two things struck me as I read. First, newspapers were not so explicit 30 years ago, making it easy to gloss over what happened. Second, allowing Polanski to plead to "unlawful sexual intercourse" made the situation look less abusive, a statutory rape at best.

Agree with you on not accepting the genius argument here or in other cases. Someone wrote that the recent agitation by his attorneys practically challenged the authorities to do something about the warrant. Now that they have, I'll be interested to see how this resolves itself.

Why I signed the petition

[jneilschulman.livejournal.com]

I signed the petition to free Roman Polanski. It's also a petition to free Polanski's victim, Samantha Geimer. I don't think there's any signature of the totalitarian mindset more than the idea of the State being the victim in all crimes. Polanski's victim, Samantha Geimer, wants the charges dismissed and Roman Polanski freed. She does not want to testify. She wants the government to leave her alone. She wants the government to leave Roman Polanski alone. That's good enough for me. And the busybodies seem to be the same crowd as the paparazzi -- a self-perpetuating feeding frenzy on anyone in the public eye. Whatever happened to the American idea of minding one's own business?

Re: Why I signed the petition

[ironymaiden]

thank you for responding. i can appreciate your reasoning.

i know that the plea agreement in question was signed originally to spare the victim...and Polanski's departure meant that there was no closure. i do want her to be left alone.

i don't see the state-as-victim as the sign of a totalitarian state, but of equal protection under the law. when the perpetrator has enough power and privilege to make applying the rule of law difficult for the authorities, and painful and threatening for the victim - that's where the state has to step up.

the high profile of the case makes it difficult for anything else to happen; the brief from Polanski's lawyers implying that CA wasn't actually trying to catch him was a terrible mistake on their part.

again, thank you for responding.

Re: Why I signed the petition

[jneilschulman.livejournal.com]

Maybe I'm dense but I just don't see how an all-powerful State saying to a powerless victim "you're our client whether you want to be or not" is more equitable than the State refusing to let the victim decide for herself that civil damages were sufficient to make her whole.

Re: Why I signed the petition

[ironymaiden]

because that sets a standard where if you threaten the victim or a key witness, you can make the case disappear. very nice for corporations, drug cartels, organized crime, anyone who has the ability to make a victim or a witness miserable enough to drop a case.

Re: Why I signed the petition

[mysticalforest.livejournal.com]

Also...

>She wants the government to leave her alone. She wants the government to leave Roman Polanski alone. That's good enough for me.

It shouldn't be because the law applies to everyone equally.

As I see it, the purpose of prosecuting the rape of a 13 y/o girl is not about restitution to the victim, because there isn't any via that method, it's about punishing the person responsible, messaging that the behavior is not acceptable to society, keeping that person out of society where he won't rape any other 13 y/o girls, and today correctly labeling the person as a sex offender to aid society in keeping him from raping again.


>Whatever happened to the American idea of minding one's own business?

Rape is not a privacy issue. We have all agreed via our laws that rape is not acceptable and we all live by them—equally.

Re: Why I signed the petition

[jneilschulman.livejournal.com]

I guess it comes down to whom you fear most -- private criminals with assets in the millions or an empire with assets in the trillions.

(frozen) Re: Why I signed the petition

[ironymaiden]

LOL

[irishninja.livejournal.com]

While I'm somewhat appalled at the length of the list, I am quite pleased that my favorite two actors are not on it. Like you, I have a no-money policy for creators who I find... lacking... so I'm glad I can continue to support them. :)

[mrdorbin.livejournal.com]

The double standards at work here are enough to make me want to spit, especially as a gay man about to parent. ('Molestation accusation' is, like, number three on my Horrible Parenting Fears List. One sufficiently malicious person could probably ruin my life.) We basically take away all human rights for non-millionaire sex offenders, and that's something I have really complex feelings about, but a straight-up admitted unrepentant multiple rapist and fugitive? I guess my theory is that a lot of these folks have met the guy and he seems like a human being, so he obviously can't be one of THOSE sex offenders. I'm sure you can imagine the level of sympathy I have for that line of thought.

(WHY Almodovar WHY)

[ironymaiden]

i liked Luc Besson, who said (paraphrased) i like the guy, but i'm not signing the petition because no one is above the law.