(no subject)

[ironymaiden]

Harlan Ellison suing over City on the Edge of Forever...and the followup is that there may be some element from it in the upcoming Trek movie and that's why the suit is happening now. the script that Ellison wouldn't put his name on back-in-the-day. he says it's about the money.

yunno, when Leonard Cohen got broke, he started touring again to make some money. you know, working, energizing his dormant fanbase, maybe picking up some new fans who would buy his product. just saying.

Comments

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

To be fair - he is writing (works released in 2003 & 2006) - he's also pissed that his work is being referenced without remuneration - see Jay Lake's diatribe on copyrights here (http://jaylake.livejournal.com/1752140.html?view=12321612#t12321612) (different issue, but similar problem).

Don't get me wrong - Harlan can be a complete ass - but defending his copyrights is hardly something to damn him for. He's a writer - this is how he earns his living. Even if he is a jackass.

[ironymaiden]

huh. what are they?
checking something that claims to be official got me nothing recent and wikipedia didn't get me any pubs in this decade beyond a couple shorts and an essay; i remember the Amazing Stories one was a piece of flash, something like 200 words.

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

Harlan Biblio (http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/e/harlan-ellison/)

I, Robot: The Illustrated Screenplay (2006) (with Isaac Asimov) play

A Friend to Man (2003) short story

And, I suspect, that in his 70's he's slowing down and living off Royalties as anyone as prolific as he should be able to.

But I really do want to note that defending one's copyright is not behaving like an ass - that's just good business - His assery is a separate issue ;>.

[ironymaiden]

...i would also argue that a tv script is work-for-hire and he doesn't own the concepts anymore, they're part of canon.

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

true - but he still gets paid for it - and you were talking about him producing to get paid currently - so i figured it counted ;>

[melkahb.livejournal.com]

He got paid for it, forty some years ago.

This isn't about defending copyright. That's something that needs done, sure, but there's a logical and legal limit to it (that don't necessarily coincide). Harlan talks a good game, but his primary activity (at least as of his appearance at the Nebs in Seattle) was litigation. His minimal production during the time he's in court is what this is about. Harlan needs money, he finds someone he can conceivably sue over something that might have had his name on it multiple decades ago. Cohen needs money, he goes on tour, does 3-hour sets at his shows, and he's in his 70s too. The comparison is completely valid.

This isn't even about Harlan being a jackass. It's about suing people instead of writing. Either he's a writer or not, and judging by most of what he's done over the last ten years, he's not.

Hmm. That said, I suppose we shouldn't be too upset with him for suing instead of writing. At least this way he's being honest. I have enjoyed his writing in the past, jackassery not withstanding. This isn't about writing, this is about litigation.

[melkahb.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I realized there should be :) emoticons spread throughout there. I'm serious about what I said, but I'm not mad at anyone here.

So, um... :) :) :)

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

Fair enough - Harlan is about litigating these days - but give him the credit for actually believing that what he's doing is right - for me, at least, that counts for something. Jackassery not withstanding ;>.

[melkahb.livejournal.com]

Eh, no worries. While I'm pretty firmly convinced that copyright law in this country is amazingly screwed up as a result of corporations like Disney, the fact is that there's enough loopholes in it at the lower levels to royally screw the smaller people trying to make a living off of, say, writing. With that in mind, you've got to stand up for what's yours. I'm not convinced Harlan's got a claim on City on the Edge of Forever, but that's a different discussion. The thing you can say without reservation is that he throws himself bodily into whatever he happens to be doing, and that's commendable in itself. :)

[buhrger]

there's enough loopholes in it at the lower levels to royally screw the smaller people trying to make a living
reading robert fripp's blog makes this clear, admittedly in the realm of music, and admittedly in britain. he regularly laments the lamentations of the major recording labels about music theft, pointing out that they've been selling his music in manners expressly forbidden to them by the contract he signed.

Sniveling content providers

[andrew-the-oga.livejournal.com]

"Distribution is everything; production is nothing."

A friend of mine says that, but he makes commercials for a living.

[buhrger]

and thus, in his context, he's correct

Perfectly well said

[andrew-the-oga.livejournal.com]

I think you said that perfectly well, emoticons or none.

[ironymaiden]

i think Ellison's lack of output is something Jay is touching on - that one can be out there chasing down copyright violations and wrapped up in lawsuits, or writing. there isn't time and money to do both.
i would take Ellison more seriously if he hadn't disavowed City on the Edge of Forever decades ago. i would take him more seriously if he hadn't spent the last ten years on lawsuits. i would take him more seriously if i didn't think he was an engine behind the crazy SFWA takedown notice debacle in 2007.

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

Jay is focused on (unless I gave you the wrong link) Google's stealing author's rights - something Harlan has been both good and a jackass about for decades. While I agree that Harlan has his issues - he's also, occasionally, right. Even a broken clock is 2x a day, afterall ;>.

The Google debacle is a much bigger issue - the idea that someone can get subrights to my writing just be saying so and that I can only stop that by a) noticing and b) yelling cease and desist is just upside down. I should have to be ASKED for permission - that's the whole basis of copyright law - that's what Jay's on about in the link (I think) I gave you.

[ironymaiden]

i read the post and understood it. i think Jay's right to be upset. what i was referring to was this bit of the post: If I brought a suit against them, they would just lawyer me to death or bankruptcy.

Harlan started out fighting the good fight, i don't question that. and now he's out of money and has blown a good decade on the process. so his answer is not to squeeze more money out of his existing work or write new, but to come up with a new lawsuit about a 40 year old property written in someone else's world. that's really sad.

[twilight2000.livejournal.com]

Ah - I don't think Jay was referring to Harlan at all - but I can see the connection you're making. I think Jay was explaining why he *wasn't* sueing more than referring to what's happening to others. I wrote every damn member of the Senate Judiciary Committee asking them to fix this copyright issue - I figure that's a decent start ;>.

And yea - Harlan did start out fighting the good fight - I'm not sure he knows how *not* to fight after all this time.

I'd sure like to see him write again - I like a lot of his work - jackassery notwithstanding ;>.

[spazzychic.livejournal.com]

Why ya gotta be a jackass Harlan?

[mort-q.livejournal.com]

For the same reason the rest of us are jackasses.... 'cause we can.

[mysticalforest.livejournal.com]

Who's Harlan Ellison?

hee hee!

[ironymaiden]

+1

He worked on this brilliant sf series

[andrew-the-oga.livejournal.com]

He worked on a brilliant Canadian speculative fiction series (http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/star.html) back in 1973. I gather he also did some other writing... but I haven't heard whether any of it was any good.