it's a modest proposal. or not.

[ironymaiden]

noted:motherhood issues*

i think about this sort of thing quite a bit, as the jury is still out on reproduction at my house. (watching my sister turn into some kind of Stepford mom just as we started to be friends has cranked back the biological clock a few turns.)

what it comes down to is that there is no way to talk about such ideas without people on both sides frothing at the mouth. childfree people are often virulently reactionary, while parenting advocates tend to moral superiority and smugness. i am reminded of the moment in Star Trek IV when Bones wants to talk with Spock about being dead, and Spock refuses because they have no common frame of reference - there is no way to have a dialog without the experience, once you have the experience there is no dialog.

no one would get funding for research to back it up anyway.

*posting a link to someone else's interesting post does not constitute an attack on parents. my friends are pretty good at it, i think mine did a good job, i think the human race needs to continue in a way that doesn't suck. i have no idea how y'all do it.

Comments

wondering about the etymology of "sprog"

[buhrger]

it's a modest proposal. or not.
mr.watts tends towards a bleak, cynical outlook in his writing, blog, book, and otherwise. is he serious about it? i'm sure he's serious about some of it. this proposal, however, may be, as you noted, modest.

childfree people are often virulently reactionary
i try not to be. heck, it's not something about which i talk much. heck, i don't even have a problem with other people having children. i like my friends kids, enjoy playing with them, and am glad for all our sakes that i can give them back when we're all done.

there is no way to have a dialog without the experience, once you have the experience there is no dialog.
interesting point. you're right, of course, and in retrospect it may be obvious, but i've never seen the issue framed in those terms before.

no one would get funding for research to back it up anyway.
the list of interesting social science research projects that noöne would should ever fund isn't short :-)

[shellyinseattle.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...this is one of those issues where people tend to think that they're way is the best way, irregardless of the fact that every parent/set of parents is different and child raising should take this into account. Within certain parameters, of course.

Interestingly, everyone seems to be okay with how we're raising Heidi and doesn't second guess us there. The decision that got more people worked into a lather about us was when we moved from Seattle to the nearby burbs. Jeez. We're still getting some flak on that one.

I think you and Chris would be fine either way, since you've both already have established who you are and what your relationship is like. And you won't let having a child keep you from being yourself, which I think just leads to problems later on.

I know its difficult to do, but try not to let your sister's experience color your emotions too much. I will mention that late 30s really and truly is harder on the body than early 30s, which might help your mindset move the other way if you decide to have a child.

[steve98052.livejournal.com]

I hate that sort of stuff (that editorial, not your comments on it). We don't have kids, but that doesn't make me feel any disrespect for people who do. Instead, knowing how much complication they add to parents' lives (even knowing only by observation, not experience), I admire those who take on the responsibility. No respect for those who are parents but dodge the responsibility, of course, but I admire the efforts of those who make the effort, even if they're doing it partially out of sociobiological instinct.

[mrdorbin.livejournal.com]

Parenting and food are the new religion and politics for passionate uninformed debate, it seems like. Everyone has too much anecdotal evidence.

[ironymaiden]

i feel like you guys have been careful to think about your experiences observing and interacting with other parents and are aware of avoiding their mistakes. i appreciate little things you do, like assuming that people don't want to hold the baby rather than the other way 'round. it's excellent.
being the minority in a circle of friends can't be easy, but you make it work.

Re: wondering about the etymology of "sprog"

[ironymaiden]

interesting point. you're right, of course, and in retrospect it may be obvious, but i've never seen the issue framed in those terms before.
yeah, i was trying to come up with a way to undo parenthood. one can remember what it was like before, but the wiring's been redone. perhaps the closest analog i can access is loss of virginity, and i know that i now have no way to replicate my response to the idea of sex before i did it. it's all through the prism of experience.

Re: wondering about the etymology of "sprog"

[ironymaiden]

oh, and starting to look up sprog got me the ED entry on childfree.

[shellyinseattle.livejournal.com]

Well, gosh, thank you very much.

Re: wondering about the etymology of "sprog"

[sinthrex.livejournal.com]

Sex didn't really change much for me as a person. I suppose you could say I added another pasttime that I'm fond of, but that's about it.

What I would be interested in would be a way to undo/rollback puberty/teen mental shifts and see where I ended up.

[pixxelpuss.livejournal.com]

The jury is out over here too. If you want to chat about it, since we apparently have similar frames of reference or lack thereof.

[pixxelpuss.livejournal.com]

Can you define "dodge the responsibility"? Are you thinking along the lines of deadbeat dads or women who use daycare? Just to clarify...

[steve98052.livejournal.com]

I meant unambiguous neglect by either parent – deadbeat dads, moms who abandon babies, drunk or drugged-out parents who don't manage to care for their kids through the haze of their addiction, and so forth.